A review of “The wars to Come,” the first episode of the fifth season of “Game of Thrones”
by Miodrag Zarković
HBO seems to be making a habit out of placing “Game of Thrones” in the wrong hands.
This past weekend, the first four episodes of Season 5 of “Game of Thrones” were leaked on the internet, immediately reaffirming the epic fantasy as the most pirated television show in the world. HBO soon released a statement, confirming that “the leaked four episodes of the upcoming season of Game of Thrones originated from within a group approved by HBO to receive them.”
One might think they’re somewhat used to the situation by now. As in, this really shouldn’t be the first time they realized they trusted the wrong people about “Thrones.” And we’re definitely not talking about internet piracy.
In April 2011, when the debut season premiered, HBO wasn’t suspicious, but, after the second episode aired, many a fan expressed their concerns. The reason was a particular scene in which Cersei Lannister visits Bran Stark, who’s in a coma, and tries to comfort his mother Catelyn. And what a comforting it was! To the woman already half-mad because of the condition her son finds himself in, Cersei tells a story about the child she herself lost to a fever years ago.
That scene had absolutely no business being in a show based on the “A Song of Ice and Fire” series by George R. R. Martin. And now, four years later, it’s pretty obvious why.
“How many children does Scarlett O’Hara have?” asked Martin recently, referring to the differences between the “Gone with the Wind” book and its film adaptation, and implying two canons for the same story is not something unheard of. Well, Mr. Martin, you were possibly addressing the wrong audience about the wrong mother. It’s not us you had to discuss Scarlett’s kids with, it was David Benioff and Dan Weiss you had to discuss Cersei Lannister’s posterity with. Because, as evidenced by the Season 5 premiere, Benioff and Weiss, the duo behind “Game of Thrones,” clearly needed some help in keeping track of their own imagination.
When asked how many children Cersei Lannister gave birth to, one isn’t necessarily to choose between the show and its source material but—between two different seasons of the same show! Back in 2011, as explained, Cersei bore at least four children: Joff, Myrcella, Tommen and a boy who died of fever. Come 2015, and Cersei Lannister mothered only three kids: that’s what she was foretold as a kid, and that’s what she obviously believes in. Yes, we’re talking about the flashback scene, the historical first in the “Game of Thrones” universe that opened the new season, titled “The Wars to Come”. In the scene, Cersei and her hysterical friend (a sidekick kid that continually and loudly advises the main kid against the thing they’re actually doing, is one of the oldest and most boring clichés in storytelling, by the way), visit a witch able to foresee the future. When young Cersei demands to know hers, the witch tells her she’ll have, pay attention, three children of her own!
The number is the same as in the books, but, alas, it doesn’t add up when you add the poor kid Cersei was talking about in Season 1. And the scene with Cat wasn’t the only one Cersei mentioned the dead boy in. She also brought up the kid while talking to Robert Baratheon, in Episode 5. It actually seals the deal that the unfortunate infant did exist in the show universe in 2011, because otherwise talking about him with the man who fathered him would make no sense at all.
That’s “Game of Thrones” for you. Go on, count Scarlett O’Hara’s children as many times as you like and draw any conclusion you find fit, just so long as you pay no attention to the kids actual characters in the show keep mentioning and then totally forgetting about a couple of seasons later. It’s not a big deal, after all. Who among us isn’t confused about the number of kids we produce? Nobody said parenting was easy, counting your children included.
But, truth be told, more serious issues than pure math are involved here. Back in 2011, fans of the books didn’t need a witch to realize how troubling the story about Cersei’s dead boy truly was. The entire scene had a neon sign that telegraphed Benioff & Weiss’ intention to humanize the queen of Westeros. That wouldn’t be a problem had she not been humanized in the books, but she was. Which means Benioff & Weiss were repairing something that wasn’t broken. No good could come from that.
Besides the now-you-know-them-now-you-don’t kids, one more thing was notably absent from the TV prophecy: the valonqar, e.g. the younger brother destined to squeeze the life out of Cersei once all of her children are dead. It’s completely puzzling that Benioff & Weiss decided to remove the crucial part which made the prophecy what it is.
In “The Wars to Come,” there’s one more female character completely rid of any possible valonqar: Sansa Stark. Once, she had two younger brothers of her own, Bran and Rickon. The show, however, didn’t have Sansa even acknowledge their existence or their “deaths” ever since she left Winterfell early in Season 1. Instead, she was last seen preoccupied with her cousin Robert Arryn, the Lord of the Vale.
But it wasn’t for long. In the first scene of the new season they appear in, Littlefinger and Sansa leave Robert to be fostered at Yohn Royce’s household.
If you don’t recall instantly, Robert is the neurotic kid that was supposedly the centerpiece of the unrevealed but strongly hinted at scheme Littlefinger and Sansa planned last year. In the already infamous scene that ended her Season 4 arc, Sansa appears at the top of the stairs in an ominous dress (really ominous, not like the TV witch’s prophecy) of her own creation, and joins Littlefinger in manipulating the terrified Robert. “Shall we go?” she asked seductively, before the scene ended, along with her story for the season. Next time we saw her was this Sunday, and it looks like there really was no plan for Robert after all. A year ago, when she invited them to go somewhere, she was apparently talking about Yohn Royce’s household. Taking poor Robert out of the Eyrie, that was the task Sansa had to dress herself for so strangely! That’s why she had to become a seductress overnight. Of course, Robert would never follow her had she kept her hair red, her dress green, and her cleavage unexposed.
Seriously now, manipulating Robert Arryn seems like one more strange direction that Benioff & Weiss abruptly took, and then even more abruptly abandoned after realizing it led nowhere. It was a pure waste of everyone’s time, which is the one resource the show doesn’t have in abundance. Other things Sansa’s arc this season already managed to abandon, however, are even more troubling. Because, along with the time, logic suffered too.
There is no logic whatsoever in Littlefinger’s explanation on why they are leaving the Vale. “So, where are we going? To a land where you trust everyone?” asks Sansa once they’re in a carriage. “To a land so far from here that even Cersei Lannister can’t get her hands on you,” answers Lord Baelish, thus making the audience as puzzled as Sansa seems to be.
You see, thanks to the information from the production and images from the trailers and incidents mentioned at the beginning of this article, it’s not a secret he’s taking Sansa to Winterfell, which is ruled by the Boltons at the moment. And you have to be a moron to run from Cersei by hiding among the Boltons. So, either TV Littlefinger is the moron for trusting the Boltons on any level whatsoever, or TV Sansa is a moron who doesn’t realize Littlefinger is about to sell her to the worst possible bidders, or . . . you know . . . like, HBO should really be way more careful about who they’re sending “Game of Thrones” episodes to.
Sansa’s storyline this season is emblematic of the biggest problem the show continues to suffer from: the lack of any context whatsoever. And it’s not just about the faithfulness to the source material. Yes, Martin’s novels offer any number of contexts that could and should have been exploited on screen to no regret. Benioff & Weiss, however, ignored the majority and used only a handful of them, and added many contexts they invented, as lacking as the latter may be. But eventually it’s all for nothing, because Benioff & Weiss apparently didn’t meet a context they were careful not to violate in a blatant way.
Really, why would anyone, be it Littlefinger or someone else, go all those lengths to save Sansa from King’s Landing, only to hand her over to one of the rare families that is visibly more disturbing and depraved than the Lannisters? It makes no sense at all. Not to mention that Littlefinger has no reason to expect the Boltons wouldn’t turn Sansa over to the Iron Throne the first chance they get. Roose and Ramsay aren’t famous for their loyalty, after all. Why would anyone expect a better treatment from them than the one Robb Stark received?
But no, looks like Benioff & Weiss didn’t think Sansa’s TV arc through. No wonder it’s only becoming a bigger and bigger mess: at one point, Littlefinger was saving Sansa from the Lannisters; next moment, she was saving him from the Lords of the Vale and the accusation about the death of Lysa Arryn; then, in no time, the two of them seemingly agreed to control the Vale by manipulating Lysa’s challenged son; alas, no, Littlefinger actually had something entirely different in mind, and what he plans now is, by the way, far worse than anything he or Sansa or both possibly intended up to that point.
That’s what you get when you write ignoring the consequences your decisions may have.
“The Wars to Come” contains at least two more blunt examples of ignored contexts. Chronologically, the first is the scene with Cersei and Jaime in the sept. The disaster was a given. There’s Jaime, there’s Cersei, there’s a dead body right by them, they’re alone and at a holy place. The context of messing with such an opportunity in a very wrong way is not the one Benioff & Weiss could ever ignore. And they did mess with it, big time.
“Did you set him free?” asks Cersei to her twin brother, referring to Tyrion, of course. Jaime instantly forgets he has a tongue, which Cersei correctly understands as the confirmation that yes, he was the one who released the Imp. And she’s not about to let her twin brother go off the hook lightly: “Tyrion may be a monster, but at least he killed our father on purpose. You killed him by mistake. A stupidity.”
And that’s it. That is all the punishment Jaime will receive from Cersei for saving the person she hated all of her life. Just to sum things up: almost the entire Season 4, Cersei spent carefully arranging Tyrion’s death, and when she was finally about to get precisely what she wanted, her little brother somehow escaped from the dungeons and managed to murder their father and the family’s patriarch, and then she finds out it was her other brother that started this chain of events by breaking the law and releasing Tyrion on his own—and she does nothing but chastise Jaime? It all comes down to scolding him!
That kind of storytelling actually isn’t connectable to a competent writing. Cersei is either obsessed with bringing Tyrion to his death, or she isn’t. Tywin’s death is either a big deal, or not. And if the characters themselves don’t seem affected by the crucial events at all, why would the audience be? If incidents like Tyrion’s escape and Tywin’s death effectively have no meaning for Cersei or Jaime, why would they mean anything to the audience?
Similar questions may be asked in regards to the closing scene of the episode, in which Mance Rayder refuses Stannis’ offer and chooses to be burned alive. The scene is so shallow and self-serving it looks like the logic perished in flames long before the King Beyond the Wall. Really, why would Mance refuse Stannis? Is not bending the knee really that more important than saving lives? And if so, why did the Wildlings ever bother to flee south in the first place? What the hell did Mance expect: to enter the realm, but avoid becoming a subject to one king or another, and lose not a single man in the process?
A season or two ago, his plan looked very differently. A season or two ago, he wasn’t opposed to the very idea of Wildlings fighting their way into the Seven Kingdoms. But now, when one Stannis Baratheon effectively offers them the help of his troops, Mance refuses? Suddenly, he’s a conscientious objector who’d rather burn than pick a sword against another human being?
“You’re a good lad, truly you are, but if you can’t understand why I won’t enlist my people in a foreigner’s war, there’s no point explaining,” says Mance to Jon before their final goodbye to each other. But it’s all wrong. From the very beginning, the Wildlings had to count on the armed resistance their invasion on the Seven Kingdoms will be inevitably met with. Fighting the 7K armies is not a possibility Stannis introduced. If anything, Stannis recognizes the common cause and proposes to join forces, since they obviously face the same enemy. But Mance refuses. And instead chooses to be burned alive. The reason be damned.
The first episode of the new season ended right after Jon Snow put Mance out of his burning misery by killing him with an arrow through the heart. And the big question remained hanging in the air:
Really, HBO, why weren’t you much more careful with granting access to this material?
PAWN TO PLAYER 
Great review, Miodrag! I think you might have answered the question on why the show didn’t include the valonqar prophecy in your point about Cersei merely chastising Jaime over Tyrion’s release. In the books we see that Cersei is haunted by the possibility that Tyrion could be her valonqar, which obviously makes his escape all the more frustrating and frightening. It would have necessitated a much stronger reaction on Cersei’s part to what Jaime has done if viewers were to appreciate Cersei’s fear over this portion of the prophecy.
On Sansa: let me just say that I’m officially over whatever worries I had about spoilers coming out of the show. Having the Winds chapter released by Martin has cemented that the richer, more logical content and development of Sansa’s story will always be found in the books (probably Martin’s intent behind the release), and that regardless of what the show might reveal in upcoming episodes in their alternate universes, their approach is so fundamentally different that the books will always have the last word.
What I found particularly lacking in this first episode was the dialogue. If the show insists on changing some characters beyond recognition, then giving them better lines to spout would go a long way in making their variations, if not more pleasant, at least more palatable. For a show that prides itself on mysteries and shocking events, character motivations – Varys and his loyalties – were openly declared, and the others like where Littlefinger was taking Sansa, were almost laughable in the attempt to create some “intrigue.” I’m sure the bad dialogue didn’t help either.
All this really highlights the fundamental flaws in the adaptation which, as you’ve always said, will only become more apparent when the show cannot rely on the books. A final word: the episode was very boring. That alone was unforgivable for a season opener heading into what should be its most exciting and tumultuous developments.
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Excellent review, Miodrag. I’m so happy you’ll be posting weekly reviews. I don’t know what I’ll look forward to most–the show for the exercise in venting or your refreshingly honest reviews. I’m shocked this show isn’t panned more. The writers/producers rely far too much on the audience checking their brains at the door before watching. The writing, plot holes, and ridiculous inconsistencies are appallingly insulting.
And, yes, why hand Sansa over to the Boltons–a family as much the enemy, if not more so, of the Starks as the Lannisters? I suppose the producers expect the audience will forget about turncloak Roose because they’ll be so enthralled by the shock factor Ramsay will bring.
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The handling of the prophecy was just a great miss. They even bothered adding a few more bastards to Robert list of kids-he-will-have (and Cersei murder as babies) but kept Cersei’s list to 3…
And while she’s scolding Jaime, it’s Jaime who’s playing the part of paranoic Cersei.
This show is so ridiculously inconsistent that I’m starting to think of it as a comedy show.
Anyway, I’m very looking forward to your weekly reviews, there’s plenty of ranting ahead of us.
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Thanks for the refreshing review. Its really frustrating to see first class material that could have been adapted brilliantly butchered.
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My biggest problem with this episode wasn’t so much how crappy an adaptation this television show had become (although, yes I consider that a problem) it was how unmoved I was. Completely and utterly unmoved. And I couldn’t put my finger on why until I read this review. The inconsistent characterizations and, as the reviewer puts them, contexts just creates a situation where nothing has consequences and nothing matters.
Littlefinger spent a good fifteen years scheming to climb the ladder high enough so that he can marry Lysa and gain control of the Vale (I think that was his goal, he’s slippery that one) and evidently getting his slimy hands on Sansa was even more important because he risked his first goal for the sake of the second. But now he’s going to just drop all that because…. um….
And let me ask you this: why did Sansa dye her hair? Everyone knows who she is. They call her “Lady Sansa”. Is it a fashion statement?
The show’s characterization of Cersei has been a problem from the beginning, but at this point she is unrecognizable. I’ve started calling her “Carol” in my own writing on the show because she is just not Cersei Lannister. In fact, Jaime is more like the Cersei Lannister from the novels that our friend Carol is.
The situation at the Wall just looks worse and worse, the more you unpack it. They’re burning Mance for not following R’hllor? Not, like, for being a deserter from the Night’s Watch? And, yeah, their goal was to get on the other side of the Wall, and this is a rather good chance to make that happen. But Mance himself has, like, zero context as a character, so I don’t know why I’m surprised. It’s such a shame that they wasted a good actor like Hinds.
And I’m extremely nervous about the amount of screen time being given to their horrible original characters, Olly the annoying orphan boy, and Olyvar, Westeros’s favourite omnipresent prostitute.
Thank you for the review. Keep them coming. I’m genuinely mystified by how this show became a critical darling, and even more mystified that it appears set to remain one.
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Clearly the change from weak!Sansa to strong!Sansa in D&D’s estimation required the appropriate costume adjustments, hair included. I’m sure they considered it to be the height of subtlety. If Sophie Turner’s expression was anything to go by in this episode, she’s not unaware of the mess they’re making of Sansa’s story line. You made a good point on Mance. Really, do any show only watchers even appreciate what his role was in the series, other than some vague idea that he led the wildlings and was now being burned for refusing to kneel to Stannis? Littlefinger’s logic involved making Sansa more safe by taking her somewhere more dangerous.
The show remaining a critical darling is something that baffles me too. I can only think that the novelty of having something of this scope on television, along with being endlessly hyped for its “ruthless politics” and “no one is safe” surprises continue to blind critics who would otherwise be a lot more discerning in their judgments. When someone watches the show and thinks to themselves, hey, what just happened there, they probably don’t immediately realise they fell into one of D&D’s cavernous plot holes but instead fool themselves into thinking they’ll eventually realise what was up. I guess one of the benefits of having no context and no continuity is that you become a law unto yourself in a way. I mean, who’s going to hold you accountable besides loyal book readers and so-called “purists”? Also, the show clearly continues to benefit from whatever thin strand of connection they still hold to the books which has allowed them to exploit the elements they needed to build their rep, while demolishing Martin’s craftsmanship in the process.
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” Also, the show clearly continues to benefit from whatever thin strand of connection they still hold to the books which has allowed them to exploit the elements they needed to build their rep, while demolishing Martin’s craftsmanship in the process.”
Yes. Just Yes. I made a similar point in my blog awhile back in response to a bitch-media article praising the character of Sansa. The article was clearly discussing Martin’s character, not D&D’s, yet it continually referred to her as “a character from Game of Thrones” and included several pictures of Sophie Turner.
All the elements of the show that get real praise and are really memorable, be they plot elements or interesting characters and relationships, are work that Martin did fifteen years or more ago. Very few people were terribly impressed with that Robb/Talisa romance, or how wonderfully understated the beetle speech was.
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“I’ve started calling her “Carol” in my own writing on the show because she is just not Cersei Lannister.”
Ha! This made me LOL. And since I just finished watching all 5 seasons of The Walking Dead over the past three months when you said Carol I immediately thought of Carol on TWD. Now she has had some fascinating character development.
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“Sansa’s storyline this season is emblematic of the biggest problem the show continues to suffer from: the lack of any context whatsoever.”
This sums it up perfectly. I have to think that this is the season that’s going to pull the wool away from people’s eyes. The characterizations are erratic, storylines are dropped left and right, and even the plots are just lacking any sort of subtlety or…literary theme (seriously, did either D or D take an English Lit class in their life?).
Your review was perfect in framing this too. It effectively highlighted the inconsistencies, outright lack of logic, and uncompelling dynamics that underwrite just about every plot. A small exception may be given to Arya, but even then they’ve altered her characterization and ignored the themes present in her arc.
I expected to nerd-rage after the episode, but I didn’t. I just…I was so apathetic towards it. This is bad writing. And the earnest excitement of the Unsullied only proves to be more of a head-scratcher.
I agree with brash that I’m not worried in the slightest about Sansa spoilers coming out of this. They’ve never seemed to have any understanding of her character (sheep shift), and her “shall we” moment was such an unearned and unseeded shift. It drives me crazy too; it’s like they had no use for her character in Kings Landing because empowered women have to be sexually manipulative or cutting off people’s heads every minute (Brienne), so they altered her story for the sake of Tyrion during the first 4 seasons, and then just outright skipped to Darth Sansa. It’s so transparent.
Annnyway, I could complain for awhile. This was a fantastic review, thank you!
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“…it’s like they had no use for her character in Kings Landing because empowered women have to be sexually manipulative or cutting off people’s heads every minute (Brienne), so they altered her story for the sake of Tyrion during the first 4 seasons, and then just outright skipped to Darth Sansa. It’s so transparent.”
Spot on, Cheb. All the important details and nuances of what made Sansa endure and resist her captors went missing from her characterisation, and then suddenly D&D expected readers to grasp that now she’s a player because she’s “realised what LF wants.” Which of course brings up right back up to the sexually manipulative angle. Woe be the character who falls outside of the temptress or tomboy categories.
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“Woe be the character who falls outside of the temptress or tomboy categories.”
You know that is a big pet peeve of mine Brash. That a female can’t be “feminine” and yet be strong. That is one of my main complaints about show Brienne these days. They have only shown her tough, kickass warrior side whereas book Brienne is so much more nuanced and is very sensitive and vulnerable at times.
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Thanks everyone for posting.
@brashcandie: I can think of one more reason for valonqar omission – they’re afraid it’d confuse the audience. Because of past examples (“Your sister” instead of “Only Cat”, from the top of my head), I think it’s official D&D have no respect for the attention and memory of their average viewer.
@doglover2: Without going into details of the coming episodes, I’ll just say it’s even more stupid on the Boltons front. D&D are actually reminding people at every turn that Roose’s the one who put a sword through Robb’s heart. What are they eventually planing to do with that storyline is something I’d be afraid to guess.
@CatherineLaw: Yes, they really reversed Jaime and Cersei. Sometimes it looks like they’re actually trying to make everything wrong and disjointed.
@theculturalvacuum: Agree, TV Cersei deserves a different name, but so does every other character D&D “fixed” with their writing talents. Like, is there anyone they didn’t change beyond the point of recognition? Before this season, I’d say Davos was possibly the only one whose character was somewhat preserved, but now they managed to ruin even him, I think. Literally, there is not a single character that isn’t drastically altered in the show.
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It was quite clear to me from the start of the show that the producers think that the audience is stupid.
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@chebyshov: However weird it sounds, but I think both Benioff and Weiss are Eng Lit graduates. I actually think their friendship begun at the university. It only adds to my general confusion about their anti-talent. Like, someone who graduated literature had to read hundreds of books, and I’ll never understand how such a person can come up with the idea of, say. money-returning whores. Or, with a nurse charming a king on a battlefield by being crass to him. Or any other nonsense they managed to produce so far.
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About the critical praise the show receives:
Yeah, some critics got carried away and some are probably not interested enough to analyze deeper, and so on, but HBO is playing a big part in that department. HBO’s regional HQ in Croatia invites TV critics from the entire region (seven countries) to be their guests for the advanced screening of the first two episodes of each GoT season. They pay the trip and all the other costs. They don’t do that for any other of their shows, as far as I know. And I’d guess other HBO headquarters around the world probably do something similar, if nor exactly the same, for GoT.
I don’t think it’s against the law or anything, of course. But, it does speak of the money and other resources HBO invested and keeps investing in GoT. It’s a cash cow for them, and if they can do something to prevent some critic bashing their cash cow, they’re probably going to do it.
And they probably treated it as a cash cow from the beginning. As far as I know, shows are either approved or refused based on the pilot. GoT pilot is the first one I know of that was practically refused (hence, the bigger part of it was rewritten and reshot), but the show was green-lighted nevertheless. Perhaps someone can correct me, but pilots are usually not remade. And it probably shows how big was HBO’s desire to adapt ASOIAF. Meaning, they probably saw a lot of money in it from the get-go. Cause, it they were interested in artistic impact, they probably wouldn’t keep the two guys who produced the first pilot that was so unsatisfying.
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Miodrag once told Brash and I that because of the baffling decisions made in terms of characterisation and failure to keep consistency across seasons, the characters from the show had in common with those from the books just their names. That sums up my entire approach to the show. I’ve always been so indifferent that usually wouldn’t be involved in show-related discussions, and that would’ve continued so had the showrunners finally not made some changes that are likely to earn them unprecedented amounts of criticism this season. As one of the people that was critical of the show from the start, it’s interesting to witness how currently more and more people are expressing the same dissatisfaction, pointing out defects that had been accumulating so consistently over time that the big pile is hard to ignore now.
Personally, whilst I was always cautious about their handling of the story, I can’t say that I expected them to do a poor job as evidenced in hindsight. No fan would expect or wish them to fail, surely, and yet, they did disappoint. The bad decisions made in Season 1 and Season 2 sealed the deal for me, and from then on it has been at best an apathetic watching, which is going to continue this season. Some people often tell that they watch certain shows “for the costumes,” or “for the lead actor,” “the setting,” that sort of stuff, and in time that has been an attractive distraction whilst watching Game of Thrones: the storylines and characterisation can head-scratchers, but one can still be distracted with the scenery, for example. That, however, is no praise, because the whole basis of a show should be the story and the characterisation, not the adornments. I have no concerns at all about what they might do, spoilers included, because the stories that I care about have all of them with no exception handled so badly that the divorce of show canon from book canon feels very natural and acceptable.
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Are people really starting to criticize the show as much as it deserves? Finally? (I’m curious, really, because I can’t enter the number one forum any more, and other places ASOIAF/GOT are discussed in aren’t as illustrative of the fans’ reaction.) Anyway, if they are, I’m certainly glad. Normally, I wouldn’t care too much about the response a show receives, there are always going to be overrated and underrated materials in any medium, but because of the often insufferable arrogance HBO expresses over GOT, every criticism (e.g. every analysis based on what’s actually seen on the screen and not on infatuation by HBO’s promotional machinery) tends to bring some childish joy to my aging heart.
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Speaking from my own experience only, it does seem so to me. Back when there were only a couple of seasons, criticism of the show tended to be construed as “book purism” and given how new the show was, there was more willingness to give them the benefit of the doubt. A few errors in the first season could be explained in a myriad of convincing ways and there was the hope that they were exceptions, as even the best of adaptations aren’t above having less than ideal parts. But then, when the first season was over, the second was over, the third was over . . . that had to end, there were too many things that weren’t done right, too many questionable decisions, and they had accumulated across years, so watchers weren’t as willing to keep to the “wait and see” attitude and more began expressing their contrary views, and it was no longer as easy to shout criticism down with allegations of “book purism!” especially when it came from legitimate show fans that had grown unhappy. And recently I’ve been seeing more criticism published on the web, with more people agreeing to the validity of the arguments than before.
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Hello. I was sad to hear about your ban. And the nitpick threads have gone to rant/rave and have become noticeably more vitriolic toward D&D, HBO and GoT. So yes, I think as this season comes closer do its conclusion and deeper into its fan fic, it will get the hatred it deserves.
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@ The Weeping Knight
Hello again, good to see you here. Hope you’re keeping up the good fight against the show because, with many reviewers still infatuated by HBO, Lord knows it’s on us few to do that. And I’m really glad if people are finally willing to treat D&D just like those two deserve.
By the way, and this is a question for everyone, are there any speculations about the last week’s leak? I mean, it could be a conspiracy theory on my part, but something tells me HBO wasn’t too mad about the leak. After watching the four episodes, I’m of the mind they don’t object it really. Basically, it’s a win-win situation for HBO because piracy doesn’t trouble them too much short term, plus the leak can only promote their new HBO-NOW thing for episode 5 and later ones, plus it will probably decrease the public uproar about the fourth episode ending since a lot of people will already see it long before the episode premiers officially. After last years sept scene, they’re probably careful about a similar controversy. Of course, all this may be just my own fan fiction GOT-style, but I wonder did anyone else get the same impression.
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I imagine there will be plenty of rage over the ridiculous scene in Episode 3 about 40 minutes in (after Jon’s last scene of that episode).
And yes, that’d happen, along with defending ADWD and such, etc.
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I was so busy expressing my complaints on other sights that I forgot about posting my comments here. At this point I agree with what you have all already commented on, so I will just add that I too am astounded that more critics aren’t calling them out on some of the huge logic fails that have taken place. There is no way that Littlefinger can believe that taking Sansa to the Boltons is somewhere safe that even Cersei can’t reach. Unless it turns out that he intended to be lying to her about that statement I just don’t believe it. And also as you mentioned, Mance’s death by fire martyrdom was another huge logic fail, followed by the Cersei and Jaime scene, followed by the lack of a valonqar mention . . . and that is just in the first episode of this season. And it is sad to me because as everyone mentioned here, the story now comes off as just blah. No one really cares. I think the epitome of this lack of feeling for me came at the end of last season when Jaime released Tyrion from prison and they just part on friendly terms as loving brothers. What motivation did Tyrion have to go and seek out Tywin to kill him? I still don’t understand that one and as a result that climactic scene just fell flat for me.
You know what’s interesting is that some of the actors are beginning to question some of the writing choices. I was following a thread about the ridiculously stereotypical portrayal of Loras as a gay man, and there was a link to an interview where Finn Jones outright said he didn’t like the scene last season where he was gushing with Sansa about the wedding dress because it was too stereotypical. Also, I heard (though not personally only through hearsay) that Kit Harrington really wanted to show more how Jon was gutted by having to betray Ygritte and by her death and they told him to hold back on that.
And don’t get me started on Robb and Talisa . . .
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Oh, I forgot to mention this last night but another plot hole/logic fail was Varys’s story to Tyrion that he supports Dany now. What? In season one it sure didn’t seem that way.
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Not sure if you’ve seen the leaked material, but this is already sacrilege as far as Tyrion’s ADWD arc goes and yet it doesn’t even really reach the iceberg’s tip. That’s for Volantis.
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I have not seen the leaked material but this doesn’t sound good at all. I am really curious about what the reaction will be to everything once the show ends for the season.
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I’m fairly certain I remember some last year’s media reports about Kit’s dissatisfaction with the way Jon is written in the show. If I recall correctly, he even wrote e-mails to D&D trying to persuade them to reconsider the direction they took with Jon’s TV story. I can’t access Westeros.org any more, so I can’t provide the links, but I’m pretty certain a poster “Patrick Stormborn” was the one who originally provided them. If you are familiar with him I guess you can find him around the show subsection these days, because he’s probably very angry about GOT’s treatment of Dany and her storyline.
Also, few weeks ago D&D along with Kit and John Bradley were guests at the Oxford Union. On YouTube there’s a video with the entire conversation. Somewhere near the end, Benioff is talking to someone from the audience and he talks about an actor whose character will die this season and who was very displeased with that decision. The actor in question tried to talk some sense into D&D, and he apparently sent them a lengthy letter with reasons against their decision, but they didn’t change their minds. I have no idea who that actor is, but it’s definitely not someone from the main cast. And if we remember all the ways Jason Momoa found to change the scripts in season one, it’s fair to say D&D often face resistance even among their own ranks, among actors.
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That’s been discussed on the rant/rave thread, and about D&D saying something like that letter made them want to kill him even more and how pathetic/childish they are. It’s been speculated that the actor is Michael Mcelhatton for whatever reason (he’s read the books I guess), or Gillen.
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Oh yes I am familiar with Patrick. He’s definitely an expert on Dany and it’s very obvious he doesn’t like how they have handled her story line. I’ll see if I can find those links.
I bet a lot of the cast members will becoming afraid to speak out now for fear that they will be killed off.
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Great review and wonderful comments! I don’t have much to add except to say that I do agree with what’s been written here. One thought that immediately comes to mind that’s been said before but I think bears repeating is: If a great deal is changed while “adapting” a story, but major plot points and endings are still intended to be included, how could the result be anything but incredibly inconsistent?
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“If a great deal is changed while “adapting” a story, but major plot points and endings are still intended to be included, how could the result be anything but incredibly inconsistent?”
This. So do we look to the arrogance of the showrunners for the debacle? They thought they could change the rhyme and rhythm of Martin’s “Song” and still convince people they were listening to the same tune? Or even one that wasn’t thoroughly discordant?
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